What can I expect to notice when using MedLean
products.
How do prohormones effect estrogen levels and how can I keep them low?
How will transdermal prohormones effect the results of urinary
drug testing?
Will injecting the transdermal prohormones improve
results?
Should I be concerned about hair loss while using prohormones?
What side effects should I look out for?
Should prohormones be used by young men?
Can woman use prohormones?
What are the effects of prohormones in the prostate?
Will the use of prohormones impair my bodies natural production of hormones?
Why do you not use LPJ hydroxypropyl cyclodextrin
in your formulas?
Will you consider making a version of
AndrosteDERM that uses only Androstenediol?
Will short lasting, high spikes in testosterone cause muscle growth?
How should be your transdermal products be
stored?
Does your body increase
conversion to
estrogen when testosterone levels are high?
What is your recommended protocol for strength
and performance?
Why do you not use 5-Androstenediol? I heard it is very
effective?
More questions about prohormones in general...
Expectations
It is our hope that everyone who uses our products will have a positive response
yet, we realize like anything else nothing works for everyone. We are very proud of our
75% satisfaction with the MedLean products.
Here are the main reasons why our products may not meet your goals.
You begin with normal levels of testosterone..
You begin with normal levels of testosterone..
Prohormones will not cause a rise above high normal levels of testosterone in the
same way that testosterone can. So if your levels of testosterone are high to begin with
taking additional andro prohormones in the form of AndrosteDERM will result in minimal
elevations in testsoterone. In this case, NorAndrosteDERM would be the proper choice as it
will raise nortestosterone levels providing an increased anabolic effect.
Unrealistic expectations
While prohormones can be very effective they will not produce the same effects as anabolic
steroids because they will not cause abnormally elevated levels of active hormones.
They also will not cause muscle gains without strength training. You can not use these
products and expect to see gains in size without weight training. And these effects just
as with anabolic steroids do not magically occur over night. You should begin to notice
strength differences within a few days and start to seeing physical changes within a week
or so.
On the other hand you may feel the CNS effect of AndrosteDERM on the first day. This
may result in increased libido, energy, mood and concentration. These effects will
vary from person to person with regard to in tnesity and time it takes to notice the
effects. Some people notice the CNS effects within a day or so. In others it seems to ramp
up and start to take effect about 2 weeks in and peak about 4 weeks. If that is the case
with you, please continue your cycle for 6 weeks.
The one downside of the slow release of transdermal hormones is it does not give the rapid
CNS burst caused by high doses of androstedione. So if you have used oral androstenedione
realize that you will not get the same pre workout rush on AndrosteDERM but you will be
avoiding the valleys and high estrogen conversion while providing steady state levels of
testosterone.
Wrong product choice
For example: If you use NorAndrosteDERM or ProMale but have low testosterone and low
libido etc. you will certainly not achieve the desired effect.
Necessity of individualized therapy
If estrogen levels are high to begin with or there is extreme stress the body may be
experienceing pituatary surpression and it will be difficult to convert the prohormones to
testosterone. In these cases, estrogen levels must be reduced through lifestyle, nutrients
and medications and the pituatary or testes restimulated first before prohormone therapy
can be effective.
More complicated medical problems
These is similar to above but includes people with medical conditions. Prohormone therapy
is not recommended here without medical supervision.
Here are some questions to ask your self after using our products.
1. How does MedLean prohormones compare to other "andro" products that you
have used?
2. Have you noticed an increase in athletic performance? If yes anything specific.
3. Have you noticed improvements in post work-out receovery
(i.e. joint pain, stiffness, muscle soreness)?
4. Have you increased muscle mass and/or decreased body fat? Please quantify.
5. Has your libido or sex drive improved?
6. Have you noticed improvements in your emotional well-being?
(i.e.less stressed, more up beat, happier)
7. Would you or have you recommended our products to a friend?
8. Have you seen increases in your level of testosterone?
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ESTROGEN
Q. Will AndrosteDERM increase estrogen levels in men to any degree? I
am particularly interested in your answer. I wouldn't want any of our obese men who
obviously have deficient testosterone levels to see an increase in estrogen and a chance
of gynecomastia. What about in the area of athletes?
Anything that increases testosterone levels will in time increase estrogen levels.
Estrogen levels are more likely to increase in men who are obese and who already high in
estrogen as opposed to athletes who most likely have normal estrogen levels. But you
should expect some increase in them as well. A greater elevation in estrogen may also be
seen in a man with high levels of testosterone who uses androstenedione as it can directly
convert to estrogen rather than testosterone. I have also found that estrogen levels are
susceptible to increases if there is a history of steroid use.
The key point here is to know baseline levels of hormones. This will allow you to avoid
problems and best determine the most appropriate product.
If estrogen is low then AndrosteDERM will be fine. If you have lhigh levels or a risk
for high estrogen then with any increase in testosterone will be at high risk to convert
to estrogen. The plan here would be to first treat the high estrogen before taking any
andro prohormones.
In my experience testing and treating many men with prohormones and testosterone is if
there is a low baseline estrogen and minimal risks of high estrogen, there is no
need for an anti-estrogen as you do not need be concerned with increased estrogen for
short term cycled 3 to 6 week use.
If estrogen levels are high but you require some testosterone boosting, your first choice
would be to use ProMale which does not contain androstenedione. It also has NorAndro
prohormones and a little bit of progesterone to oppose estrogen. It is important to add
extra zinc, lose excess body fat and reduce life style risk factors such as alcohol
intake, medications, excess carb intake etc. And remember if you desire anabolic effects
only use NorAndrosteDERM as it will actually decrease estrogen levels.
If you test low for testosterone and your symptoms are significant especially for low
libido and sexual dysfunction than AndrosteDERM will be necessary. You will then have to
use some type of anti-estrogen therapy along with the lifestyle changes.
The best results in reducing estrogen can be achieved through the use of a prescription
medication called Arimidex. It is a pure aromatase inhibitior and in many men is effective
alone.By reducing estrogen levels it can relieve a pituatary feedback and subsequently
increase testosterone levels. It is expensive but results can be very effective. I use it
frequently in my medical practice.
There are also two new nutritional products that have been studied in humans that
deserve attention. DIIM, diindolylmethane, an active metaboite of Indole 3 Carbinole and
calcium c-glucarate. They both are being researched in humans for prevention of cancer as
they enhance liver metabolic clearance of estrogen.
I would stay away from any products that contain Chrysin. First it has not been tested
in humans, second the doses needed to be effective are probably hundreds of mgs and third
even if it were effective it enhances only one phase of liver function which can results
in excessive free radical production.and lastly I believe that any one who puts chrysin in
their product can not be trusted. There is ZERO human research.
Q. Is it advisable to take Soy Isoflavones to reduce aromatase of
androstenedione and Testosterone to estrogen. I read on the AST web site that Soy
Isoflavones reduce the levels of the 2 enzymes which convert Androstenedione and
Androstenediol to Testosterone, and that therefore, for efficient conversion, one must
simply put up with the resulting Aromatase conversion to Estrogen. (ie: If you try to
limit the Aromatase conversion to estrogen you will also limit the initial enzyme
conversion to Testosterone).
I have not seen any info with regard to this effect but having said that the effect of soy
just is not that strong. Andros convert to testosterone via dehydrogenase while T converts
to E via aromotase. The question is not whether Soy is going to influence A to T
conversion but if it actually inhibits T to E conversion. My experience is a little. It
will reduce the effects of high E but I have not seen it lower it dramatically. I have
used Arimidex, a pure anti-aromotase inhibitor with great effects. E goes down and T goes
up.
Q. I suffer from gynecomastia. it is naturally occurring. I've never
taken steroids and I have been examined by a physician to determine that it is not a
result of a glandular problem. my doctor has determined it is just excess fatty tissue. I
have begun to work out and change my diet A little but it seems like the breast wont go
away. My body fat is 22%.
What I can say is that most of the time once gyno forms it is hard to get rid of
without surgery. But, significant and acceptable results can be made if you assure that
your estrogen and SHBG levels are low. Has the doctor checked these? If your reduce
body fat, insulin and estrogen levels in most cases it will not be a noticeable problem.
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Drug Testing
Q. ...Most sports organizations have banned all andro products, thus their use is grounds
for disqualification from the organization in which you compete. I was considering using
these products to prepare for my first powerlifting meet, but I will not since they are
banned. If people were to use these products, and the hormonal testing (to make sure that
they are not over the allowed ratios), wouldn't that be unethical?
From a medical perspective, I feel these bans are unfair to athletes. I have worked with
many athletes and have seen them suffer from injuries and illness caused by intense
training that depletes "normal " hormonal reserves. By using products that
restore "normal" not supra-physiologic levels you are allowing for the maximum
natural abilities of the athletes to be reached. This is strikingly different from the
very high levels seen with testosterone injections that create unnatural responses in the
athlete.
I do not understand why is it wrong to use these hormones to restore normalcy to
prevent illness and injury but alright to use steroids once someone is injured. Having
said all this, it would not be fair to use these products if other competitors in your
sport are not.
A Belgium Physician working with professional European Cyclists expresses the same
feelings…
I wish to use pro-hormones like androstenedion and androstendiol to get the
testosterone levels back in the normal range (often low during the long Tours) and even up
in optimal values. As I have no idea of the natural ratios, it would be very interesting
to know it before allowing the use of your gel during the competition period, and then
determining the exact delays needed before official testing. I never used and will never
use plain testosterone or steroids, but I believe pro-hormones is a good way as it keeps
the levels in the physiological range (as you recall it in your E-mail).
As my cyclists don't use illegal drugs, I am not interested at all in illegal products
measurements in urine and only the testosterone/epitestosterone ratio. I would of course
be happy to study the effect of androsteDERM on them over-trained cyclists, which will be
easy to find among my 70 - 80 professional cyclists including 8 of the 100 bests
(according UCI classification).
Q. Is there any danger of failing drug testing when using AndrosteDERM? How long would I
need to be off the AndrosteDERM and still be able to pass the urinalysis? Also how long
could it be tested in the blood stream? Thanks for your response.
Our studies show that the use of AndrosteDERM creates steady state levels of testosterone
in the blood stream and saliva but it does not result in abnormal levels of testosterone
or elevations of the testosterone/epitestosterone ratio. We believe that the reason for
this is that the transdermal delivery system bypasses the liver and provides for slow,
steady elevations in testosterone.
Ironically, oral dosing of prohormones due to rapid conversion in the liver are not
capable of steady state levels of testosterone in the blood stream but may cause short
term elevations in the T/E ratio causing detection in the urine.
Interestingly, interindividal rates of T and E
relative urinary excretion differ considerably after administration of testosterone or its
precursors. Many men, especially Asian will not fail urinary T/E test even on
testosterone.
Q. I was hoping to get some clarification on use of your product while participating
in a tested sport. If I am correct, either version of andro, be it -dione or -diol, has a
very short half-life and should completely clear your system in a few days. Would you
agree? If so, would the transdermal delivery change this at all. Thanks for your time, you
have developed quite an exciting product.
The prohormones should be clear from your system within a few hours after oral delivery. .
Unfortunately, these oral products provide only a small spike in testosterone, not
sufficient to help with long term recovery from overtraining and promote muscle growth.
And you will make matters worse and cause hormonal imbalances by frequently swallowing
large dosages of prohoromones to overcome this problem.. This is not the case with
transdermal delivery.
Here are lab results.
...Oral administration of androstenedione and/or androstenediol has a devastating
effect on the entire steroid profile, immediately increasing concentrations of
testosterone, androsterone and etiocholanalone and other endogenous steroids by 100 times.
Concentrations of testosterone rises faster than that of epitestosterone, which causes the
T/E ratios to exceed 6/1...
...In sharp contrasts to the sharp shifts of testosterone concentrations from orally
admisitered androstendeione and androstenediol, regular injectable testosterone esters
(which are presciption) provide constant concentration of active free testosterone in the
blood, which is actually safer and more efficient. As a result, these so called
"supplements" are actually more damaging to the body than illegal steroids. In
addition, the oral route of administration deactivates most of the dose converting it to
useless metabolites, which unnecessarily impast the liver. We do not know how damaging it
may be for chronic users...
… We tried AndrosteDerm on volunteers. It
does not cause dramatic changes in urinary steroid profile, which is good.Results for Andro are difficult to interpret, because
amplification in urinary steroid profile is very moderate and fluctuations due to urine
density hide the Andro effect. T/E elevation is minimal and far below positive cutoff. I
am waiting for your promised samples and, please send another bottle of
AndrostaDerm. Our
"volunteers" were very enthusiastic, they consumed it all…
Q. How long do testosterone levels remain elevated after using Androstederm for two weeks
at a time? I need to be able to return to my original level prior to frequent testing. I
have not started using Androstederm yet but have been getting serum tests every two weeks
and want to prevent the Androstederm applications from being discovered. So if I apply AM
and PM, won't it elevate my testosterone levels as read by the SERUM tests?
It depends on the testing. You should not have a problem with urine testing even while
on the AndrosteDERM. T/E ratios almost always remain less than the 6 cut off. Serum
testing will also not be a problem. I have never seen anyone develop abnormally high
level. In fact, transdermal application of hormone sometimes require take a few weeks to
peak in the serum. The situation is different with salivary testing, which provide the
bioavailable testosterone levels. In this case it may take a week to three weeks for
levels to revert to normal.
By the way, you will get better results using it for 4 to 6 weeks at a time. If you are
going to use it short term, apply twice daily A.M. and P.M. using 1 ml on the testes each
time.
Q. I would like to utilize NorAndrosteDERM for an upcoming contest I have in 15 weeks but
am worried about showing a false positive on the urine test I would really like to use the
products, but not at the expense and humiliation of failing a drug test for a product that
is legal to buy. Please get back to me as early as you can. Your response on this urgent
matter will be greatly appreciated!
While using NorAndrosteDERM you will almost definitely test positive for
nandralone. (nortestosterone) and our internal testing suggests that in most people it will take up to
two weeks for the urine to test negative. Obviously everybody is unique and it may take to
longer in some people. The only way to be sure is to do a trial and test prior to
competition to allay concerns.
Nortestosterone does not show up in urine. Neither it nor its metabolites are endogenous
compounds. Parent nortestosterone fully metabolizes into norandrosterone and
noretiocholanolone, which appear in urine indicating doping. NorAndrosteDERM following the
same path through intermediate nortestosterone will convert into these ultimate
metabolites. Therefore, nortestosterone cannot be measured in urine.
Here are the results of our testing…
In an effort to continue to study the metabolic and physiological effects of
NorAndrosteDERM, I had everyone of my urine samples analyzed for 24 hours on my first day
of NorAndrosteDERM use. The purpose of this testing was to confirm that topical
application of NorAndrosteDERM provided for steady state levels of NorTestosterone as
determined by the presence of it's urine metabolites. Previous studies of the urine
metabolites after oral NorAndrostedione use have shown abnormal urine metabolites
confirming rapid liver degradation and therefore ineffective conversion to
NorTestosterone.
More results:
Your eleven urine samples have been tested. Only three metabolites show up, and they are
identical to common Nandrolone metabolites: 19-norandrosterone (1), 19-noretiocholanolone
(2) and 19-norepiandrosterone. No specific metabolites of 19-nor-4-androsten-3,17-dione
and -diol have been detected. Urine concentrations of 1 vary between 500 and 1800 ng/mL
and 2 between 200 and 800 ng/mL, with 1 to 2 ratio being consistent with Nandrolone
administration (3:1). These concentrations are pretty steady, during 24 hours period,
comparing to those we observed for oral forms. This I would certainly expect from
parenteral application. Concentrations seem to depend more on urine density, rather than
on time passed from the application. This range of metabolite concentrations corresponds
to that of the high end of Nandrolone dosages.
In laymans terms:
Only three metabolites showed up in the urine and they were identical to common Nandrolone
metabolites: 19-norandrosterone, 19-noretiocholanolone and 19-norepiandrosterone. No
specific metabolites of 19-nor-4-androsten-3,17-dione and -diol were detected.
This confirmed that NorAndrosteDERM absorbed and fully converted to NorTestosterone.
There was three times as much 19-norandrosterone as 19-noretiocholanolone. Urine
concentrations of 19-norandrosterone varied between 500 and 1800 ng/mL and
19-noretiocholanolone between 200 and 800 ng/mL. These ratios and quantities were
consistent with administration of Nandrolone at the high end of dosing! The concentrations
were pretty steady, during 24 hours period, compared to those observed for oral forms.
This confirmed that with a single application NorAndrosteDERM achieved
relatively steady state levels over 24 hours.
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Injecting Prohormones
MedLeans transdermal prohormone products are NOT
formulated to be used as injectables. They are not sterile and contain agents not
appropriate for direct injection into the body.
I am aware that a company is selling a product that seems to be made to inject. While this
would not only make it a prescription drug, injecting this product would result in
very rapid absorption overloading the enzyme system and cause rapid elevations of
testosterone and abnormal metabolites.
In order to slow absorption and avoid having to inject multiple times daily to achieve any
semblance of steady state levels of testosterone, the prohormones would have to be altered
chemically by adding a molecule such as cypionate or proprionate which is used with
injectable testosterone. They again would be a pharmaceutical agents.
Most people have found very good success using the DERM products. For enhanced effects try
using 1/2 dose applied to the testes. This will cause a more rapid absorption and
therefore will require you apply both in the AM and PM. If you desire even greater
effects from prohormones, I recommend that you use MedLean's Sublingual Cyclodextrin
products, Cyclo Nor-Stack or Cyclo Andro-4Diol in conjunction with the DERM prior to work
outs for a rapid peak in hormonal levels.
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Hair Loss
Q. I have some signs of MPB. Will "andro" prohormones worsen
the condition?
Yes. If you are concerned with MPB, I would not recommend the AndrosteDERM as it may
increase hair loss. Any time you increase testosterone levels you will alos increase DHT
levels which is more androgenic and promote hair loss in those who are susceptible. It is
also possible that andro in of itself may also play a small role. See the research below.
4-androstenediol shares similar androgenic and anabolic activities to testosterone
(128% as androgenic, 95% as anabolic, Acta Endocrinologica, 42 (1963) 245-253). Regardless
of conversion. J Clin Endocrinol Metab 1996 Oct;81(10):3654-62
In practice the uuse of Propecia daily reduces the risk of the hairloss. Other
potentially useful products in clude spiranolactone, Nizoal shampoo etc. For more
information about hair loss I recommend that you read Will Brinks article "Hair Today, Gone Tomorrow" and
visit the very knowledge web site of Peter
Proctor, M.D. The guru of hair loss. He has a number of effective products!
A better option would be to use either ProMale or NorAndrosteDERM topically in cycles
with sublingual Cyclo Andro-4Diol prior to workouts for a short term T boost. (Keep this
to 4 times weekly and you will have no problems). Note: Use Propecia with caution with
Norandro products as it may actually accelerate hair loss. See the question below.
Q. First, a question about your upcoming NorandrosteDerm product. I am taking
finasteride (Proscar) to lower DHT levels. I have heard contradictory advice about
Norandro products -- good in that the nandrolone does not convert to DHT. However, it is 5
alpha reductase enzyme (substantially inhibited by finasteride) that converts nandrolone
to less harmful (from a hairloss standpoint) form. Therefore, someone from
Mesomorphosis.com said guys using finasteride (Proscar or Propecia) should stick with
Andro products. What do you think?
Actually, according to Pat and Bill nor and Proscar are probably worse than not using
Proscar for MPB. Nor alone is not as bad as T for hair loss but nor and Proscar together
might be worse. The logic goes like this. T converts to a stronger androgen
(DHT) and so
blocking that conversion should reduce hair loss. However, Nandrolone is considered a
strong androgen which in fact becomes weaker with 5ar conversion to DHN. Therefore,
blocking this conversion and having more nandrolone in the system should be in fact be
worse for hair loss!
Q. I just got my first order of androderm, (3 days ago). I also take
propecia; I
understand that propecia prevents/stems hair loss through suppression of the enzyme which
converts tetosterome to dht. my theory is that this would increase testosterome levels,
and thus, benefit my bodybuildung efforts through even greater levels of big 'T' ??? any
thoughts ???
Sounds like it would logically, but in practice Propecia doesn't increase T levels. The
body has many feedback systems.
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Side Effects
Hormonal gel delivery systems have been used for
many years in Europe Without any problem. Patches for testosterone and estrogen have also
been used for many years and have received FDA approval for this application. And I have
used them in my medical practice for over 5 years without any problem. In fact, within a
year a testosterone gel will be approved for use in the U.S. So, there is no danger to
this route of administration. In fact, if there is any risk it is with the oral route of
administration of hormones which most pass through the liver and then the lymph and blood
stream. This process not only places stress on the liver, but creates many unwanted
hormonal metabolites. Percutaneous applications are the optimal route for hormones.
In the many thousands of bottles of MedLean products used we have only heard a
few reports
of mild adverse which almost all were explained based on the persons history. This is why
we highly recommend salivary hormone testing to determine the appropriate prohormonal
product.
These are the few undesired effects seen with AndrosteDERM:
Diffiiculty sleeping caused by excessive CNS stimulation. This is mainly seen the first
week of use.
Bloating and Edema: This has occurred in men with a risk of high estrogen. (i.e.
overweight or steroid use in the past)
Mild Swelling of the breast tissue seen in one man who was double dosing.
Hair Loss - please see questions in on this page
for a further explanation.
These are the few undesired effects seen with
NorAndrosteDERM:
Decreased Libido or Erectile Function - Due
to decreased levels of testosterone. If this occurs
please reduce Nor dose and add in some AndrosteDERM.
Increased Blood Pressure. (Potential Side Effect Only) Due to the increased muscular
water retention. USE caution when using this product if you have elevated blood pressure.
With proper use of the transdermal prohormones you should not
experience any adverse effects.
i.e. Baseline Hormone Testing
Proper product choice
Cycling doses every 4 to 6 weeks
Maximum dose of 2ml daily.
Reducing dose to 1 ml if effects maintain
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Use of Prohormones in
Young Men
Q. I was
considering using steroids and then came across your product NorAndrosteDERM. It sounds
pretty good. I know what the effects are of this product and what bad things could happen.
I am 18 and I was thinking of steriods cause I am getting too small to be on the football
team. I know I should not be playing with this stuff, but I need something to make me big.
How would steroids affect me?
Steroid use will must definitely build the most
muscle mass and size. But to take advantage of them you would need to work out frequently
and hard. The most benefit comes from the quicker recovery from training so taking
steroids and working out lightly a few times weekly would be foolish. Obviously steroids
are illegal and with the benfits come some significant risks for a young man. I
would strongly advise agoinst using steroids although they can be used safely the risk
benefits in someone under 25 are not worth it. There are many other safer options
available these days such as whey protein, creatine and anabolic cycle dieting.
My general recommendation is that prohormnes should
not be used by young men because their hormone levels are usually high to begin with.
Prohormone are likely to be ineffective and cause an abnormally elevated levels of
estrogen. including decreased natural production of testosterone with cessation of
use and the development of small amounts of breast tissue.
Having said this, my personal work with athletes has
uncovered frequently lower than optimal levels of testosterone in intensely training
athletes. When hormonal balance is restored muscle mass, strength and recovery improve.
So, my first recommendation is if you are serious about performing at your best chcek your
hormone levels through salivary testing to determine a baseline. If levels are less
optimal than use of prohormones may be justified.
With this information you can then way all the risks and
benefits. If you still must choose between steroids and prohormones. My first choice would
be NorAndrostendione as it is the most anabolic and does not convert to estrogen or DHT.
And when used in short cycles it is unlikely to cause ill effects and suppression.
The effects will not be as dramatic as the roids but infinitely safer. There really are
few side effects. The only problem being that if he uses alot of the Nor for a long period
of time he may suppress natural testosterone production which later in life may cause him
some difficulties. You will need to worry about testing positive on urinary drug tests.
Your best prevention for problems would be to verify
effects and changes by monitoring your salivary testosterone levels. You can purchase a
test kit to get a baseline and then test two weeks after a second cycle to see where you
testosterone levels are. If they are decreased then take a break!
This will avoid you getting into difficulty.
So to sum up: I do not recommend using any hormones unless
you are deficient. But if you must, do it wisely and precautiously and you will most
likely be Ok.
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Woman and
Prohormones
Q. My fiancée, age 55, and with a hysterectomy
several years ago, is taking 1/4 dose (1/2 syringe per day, divided to both inner thighs)
and experiencing very beneficial effects. She feels her zest is coming back that she had
lost and thought that her main problem was loss of estrogen! Also improves her libido! She
definitely wants to continue on this program. I know the directions say "no
women" but I assume that this was for the average woman with normal testosterone
function from normal ovaries, not someone who otherwise might have no testosterone! She
also has always had a very strong sex drive before the operation and misses the low-libido
aspect since the operation.
AndrosteDERM is generally not recommended for woman as the androgenic effects and
elevations in testosterone levels may resulting in the masculinizing effects of acne, hair
growth , abnormal menstrual cycles etc. But with careful monitoring of signs of excess
testosterone, AndrosteDERM and testosterone can be safely and effectively used in woman. I
use it frequently in my practice. Many woman who have low libido or low testosterone
report increased libido and sexual satisfaction when using AndrosteDERM in low doses.
If you use AndrosteDERM use it in low doses 0.5 ml 5 days weekly. You should also
consider our soon to be released sublingual Cyclo Andro-4diol as it may work well and
allow for shorter duration of action.
Q. I am a 27-year-old female, into bodybuilding, very good health,
never have taken any andro supplements before. I am getting ready to start using
AndrosteDerm by MedLean and was wondering if there were any research about it's effect on
women. In a pamphlet on AndrosteDERM, it says the product is NOT recommended for women. Is
MedLean not recommending it for women because it is possibly risky for women, and they
don't want to be liable for it. Or are they not recommending it because AndrosteDERM is
absolutely and in all cases very bad for women?
If libido is good and you are only interested in fat loss and lean mass
gains, use Cyclo Nor-Stack two times daily or 1/2 ml of NorAndrosteDERM. Please use these
in 4 week cycles and look for signs of excess androgens such as hair growth or acne. A
small amount of andro or NorAndro in a montiored situation is fine for woman.
NorAndrosteDERM is a better option since it is less androgenic.
For more information on the proper use of prohomornes in woman
please read my interview with Oxygen Magazine and an Article by
Dr. Karlis Ullis.
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Prostate Problems
Caution: Anyone using "andro" products should perform
hormonal assessments on a regular basis. Any man over 50 years old should also have a
Prostate Specific Antigen (PSA) and prostate exam performed to rule out the presence of
microscopic cancer.
Q. Every time I have taken DHEA my prostate feels like it is going to
burst. I need testosterone but I am concerned about prostate problems?
It is very likely that when you take DHEA it is being converted to estrogen preferrably
rather than testosterone. You most likely already have high levels of estrogen which are
causingyour testosterone levels to diminish. If this is the case, you will need
anti-estorgen therpies along with the use of 17-keto DHEA. You may find ProMale is
an effective product for you. You need to have your testosterone, DHEA and cortiosl
levels checked.
Q. I am a 57 yo male. I had a slight
enlargement of the prostate.Went on DHEA and saw palmetto and all returned to normal. I
have tried AD and 4AD and enlargement returned. So I tried the NorAndro products and all
remained normal. What effect do you think AndrosteDerm will have?
I suspect that the AndrosteDERM will also cause you some difficulties. But it is
possible since you had good results with DHEA that becuase the formulas are topically
applied and restore testosterone levels you will be OK. But most likely you have higher
than normal estrogen levels which were reduced on the norandro since it reduces estrogen
levels.
Once again the key to optimal health is to maximize
testosterone and minmize estrogen. Sometimes to do this requires other measures to reduce
estrogen.
More info on how to protecting the prostate
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Pituatary
Surpression
Q. I have read that the body's own production of testosterone
would not be limited by taking andostenedione like supplements because of the very
transiency of the effect -- roughly 1 to 3 hours. But if your product is released
gradually and continuously, doesn't that signal a possible danger in respect to the body's
own "signal" to produce testosterone?
While the first part is true and now has been shown in at least three studies. But the
fact that oral dosing of androstenedione does not cause pituatary supression may be just
due to the fact that it does very little to elevate levels of testosterone. I say this
because ifyou follow a testosterone serum level curve of someone after taking a cyclo
product the levels will rise rapidly over 30 mintues to 2 hours and decline by 3 to 4
hours. The end point of this spike seems to be lower than the starting point suggestion a
minor pituatary inhibition as well. I believe that the more rapid rapid acting the
elevation the more surpression you will see.
That is not to say that if you take high doses of transdermal prohormones for extended
periods of time you will not get down regulation of testosterone levels. In my clinic when
used properly I have not personally observed with patients have difificulty. By properly I
mean, using the lowest effective dose, cycling either monthly or taking a few days off
weekly and one week off monthly. And when used for long periods of time combining
the use with Tribestan or Deprenyl.
Q. I just finished a cycle of cyclo prohormones a month or so ago
while dieting down for a bodybuilding contest. I did get what I felt were good benefits
from them but I also noticed a decrease in my libido once the cycle was over. This may
have also been due to my dieting for the contest. I was curious as if the "derm"
products were better at limiting this decrease in natural testosterone production. The
more I have read concerning the prohormones, the more concerns are raised that this may be
happening and I'd like to minimize this if possible. Thank you for your help and time.
Thanks for the question. It is a good one. At this point the jury is still out on
pituatary suppression. My feeling is that the quicker you raise T and the closer you are
to the end hormone the greater the risk of suppression. Therefore testosterone injections,
followed by sublingual prohormone and lastly topical prohormones. With slower absorption
the body has time to adapt to the prohormone and regulate it's conversion. While it
is true that high doses of testosterone can shut down pituatary function and decrease
natural production for a period of time, it has only been postulated that the prohormones
would have this effect. Personally, I believe because we are not directly replacing
testosterone and only creating physiological levels of testosterone pituatary surpression
is not the same issue as with testosterone replacement.
The advantage of the prohormones topically being the release is slower, a disadvantage
is that they are around all the time but the body will convert as needed. My
recommendation is to cycle use 4 weeks on and 4 weeks off. Although in men who have
low T, I will have them use lower dosing 1/2 to 1 ml daily on a longer term basis 5 days
weekly.
Also, you are more likely to have difficulty with libido after a cycle of Nor if you
have moderately low T to begin with as this will cause some suppression of T.
So the upshot on pituatary surpression:
Use the DERM products because it does not cause the rapid up and downs.
Use as little as necessary to get the job down. Start with 2 ml and then see if
reducing the dose will give the same effects. Consider using perhaps Tribestan or Deprenyl
for pituatary stimulation. And lastly if you can monitor your hormones after and before
one or two cycles so you know for sure. Salivary testing is best here.
Read more about how Tribestan can be helpful in maintaining
pituatary function while on prohormones.
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Cyclodextrin Molecules
We probably will switch over to the hydoxypropyl in the future
for marketing reasons. But at the current time, I really am not convinced that there is
that much of a difference clinically between the two cyclodextrin delivary systemss. There
is no doubyt that the hydroxypropyl provides improved absorption but because there a limit
to total prohormone absorption capabilities in the oral tissue it may not matter that the
HPCD is 40% better (maybe). I do hope to study this in the future. Also there has
always been some concern about whether the HPCD is considered FDA GRAS.
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Product Formulatons
Q. I have read that androstenediol cannot directly convert into
DHTor aromatize into estrogen. And only that which converts into testosterone will
aromatize and/or convert into DHT. However, these is not the case with
Androstenedione which can aromatize directly to estrogen.
This is true!
Let's look at our formulas.
AndrosteDERM is almost all androstenediol. It all contains about 15%
androstenedione.
NorAndrosteDERM has a higher% norandrostenedione% but this is less of an issue as
conversion to estorgen and DHT are not an issue..
ProMale does not have any androstenedione and contains equal amounts of norandrostenediol
and norandrostenedione..
OK. Now let's look at the best use of each of the products.
AndrosteDERM was designed for short term cycled use. It was designed to provide a good CNS
effect as well as enhanced libido. The small amount of androstenedione that is present is
very useful in achieving these results as it directly stimulates the CNS. This is not seen
to the extent with androstenediol.
NorAndrosteDERM is designed for anabolic use.
ProMale was desigend to eliminate most estrogen and DHT risk so it does not contain
androstenedione. It was designed as an all around longer use formula for the older male.
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I take large amounts of oral Andro
products before I work out. Will the short, high spikes of testosterone causes muscle
growth?
In my experience as a physician,
discussions with body builders and personal trainers, the feeling is that high spikes of
testosterone are only helpful indirectly. Because muscle growth occurs during recovery
periods not during the workout, it stands to reason that short spikes of testosterone
before a work out are not going to produce the same results that will occur with
consistently high levels of testosterone. Spiking levels of testosterone are probably only
beneficial because when taken prior to a work out or competition they improve strength and
energy allowing for better workouts. It is also possible that they also may be beneficial
by reducing post work out cortisol levels.
The problem is with oral Andro
products is that in order to cause spikes in testosterone high enough to achieve
beneficial results, large amounts must be taken. This will very likely over load the
body’s enzymes and either waste the product or cause conversion to other unwanted
metabolites including estrogen.
This problem is commonly observed with the rapid elevations caused by injectable
testosterone which frequently elevate estrogen. On the other hand topical testosterone
which is absorbed slowly and maintains a steady state of the hormone is much less likely
to cause elevations in estrogen.
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Storage of Transdermal Products
Q. I just bought a bottle of Androstederm and
have a question. The application instructions start by saying to allow Androsterderm to
come to room temperature. I read everything in the packaging and nothing indicates that I
should store the product at anything other than room temp. Should it be refrigerated?
Since I have not been refrigerating it has it lost its effectiveness? Any problems?
There is no need to refrigerate these products.
Just store at room temperature. The only advise would be to keep out of very hot or very
cold temperatures as found in a car park outside.
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Estrogen Production
Estrogen serves as a feedback inhibitor to the
brain to reduce testosterone production. When testsoterone levels increase estrogen levels
follow. If yourestrogen levels are already high then increasing tesotserone will be
preferntailly converted to estrogen and will worsen the problem and synptoms. If they are
normal than it is generally not a problem.
The length of use of prohormones will be a factor. If you are going to cycle on and off
every 4 to 5 weeks than it is not a problem, but if you need to use longer than it
is important to montior hormone levels, reduce the dose to 1/2 to 1 ml daily and perhpas
use an anti-estrogen.
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Recommended
Training Protocols
Obviously with many products on the market such as HMB, glutamine, creatine etc.everyone
wants you to believe you need their products. Do not forget the basics.
Adequate protein - 1gram per pound of body weight and 5 to 6 meals
daily.
Do not overtrain - vary your workouts
Get 8 hours sleep nightly
Reduce stress levels - nothing will undo the effects of an anaboilc
program then stress and the high cortisol levels. Take time out to relax, let out you
emotions and the use of adaptogenic formulas and nutrients can be of prime importance.
Maintain high physiological levels of free testosterone - Don't guess. I
have worked with many high performing athletes who suffered from less than optimal levels
of hormones. Check your levels by saliva or serum and then restore if necessary
through the use of the appropriate lifestyle program and prohormones.
To this: Add a high quality multivitamin mineral supplement, extra magnesium and zinc,
fruit and vegetable concentrates, glutamine after workouts and at bed time and cycle
creatine every 6 weeks.
Prior to your workout:
To decrease cortisol
- Vitamin C 4000mg and/or Phosphotidyl Serine 1000mg.
To spike testosterone - Cyclo Andro-4Diol
To enhance focus and concentration - EAS Neurogain, Ultimate Orange
After your Work Out:
To replenish glycogen, improve
muscle recovery – 30 grams Whey Protein, 10 grams creatine, 70 grams high glycemic
carbohydrate
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5- Androstenediol
Here is an add for "5-Androdiol- Anti-catabolic. Supress
cortisol and estrogen production."
The latest testosterone boosting supplement. 5-Androstenediol is sold in Europe as
METHANDROL. 5-ANDROSTENEDIOL stimulates the immune system 100 times more than DHEA and
androstene. This is extemely important to weighlifters who are constantly putting stress
on thier bodies which in turn makes them more prone to illness. 5-ANDROSTENEDIOL has also
been shown to suppress the catabolic hormone CORTISOL, which is released during heavy
lifting. Excessive cortisol can prevent muscle growth and cause muscle deterioration.
Excessive testosterone production can cause an increase in Estrogen (female hormone )
production. 5-ANDROSTENEDIOL has been shown to block estrogen production. All these
attributes makes 5-ANDROSTENEDIOL an extremely anti-catabolic supplement. Must stack with
19-NORANDROSTENE to get the full benefit.
Benefits: It may be a potential health promoter, but it displays little
muscle building effect or conversion to testosterone like a 4-andro product. besides that
why would you want to take a hormone that has the important molecule side change in a
different position than testosterone? The research suggests that 5-AD converts much more
effectively to estrogen. In fact, I have seen two guys respond to 5 AD by causing extreme
elevations in estrogen. So much so that I was thinking of putting it in menopausal womans
formula. Why do is it used? It is cheap, about 1/3 of the price of 4 AD!!!
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